Before I get started, I know some of you are going to say I'm overreacting. Maybe I am, but I only have so much tolerance in these cases, and I've reached and exceeded my limit.
I actually tweeted about the moment that pushed me to my breaking point:
The guy who'd called me "sweetheart" was visibly flustered by my rebuff and tried to explain himself a bit. "I don't mean anything by it. I've got a fiance and she's beautiful. I don't mean anything by it." My response was to go back to the initial question he'd asked (I think it was about reading our newspapers or some such), and then I went back to the work I'd been doing prior to the incident. I had a hard time getting my concentration back, though, since I was feeling very...
This interaction also brought to mind all the times I've been called "Miss Jessica" recently. No, I don't have a ring around my wedding finger, but I'm 40 years old and a midlevel administrator at this institution and "Ms." has been in common parlance for a long time, so "Miss" just isn't appropriate anymore. I'm actually okay with "ma'am" when it comes from someone younger than I am, but all of the "Miss Jessica" has come from people who are older than me. When it comes from someone who is clearly old enough to be my parent, especially when that person is male, "Miss" feels dismissive and vaguely disrespectful.
In most of the cases I've experienced, I know these men didn't mean anything by it. Although a male friend to whom I vented about this was right when he said, "sometimes disrespect is meant." I also know that it's a bit of a Southernism (don't let the fact that Delaware was on the northern side of the Mason-Dixon line fool you, we have a lot of southern culture - both good bits and bad - in this state). But I also know "sweetheart," and "sweetie," and "Miss Jessica" and so on, make me incredibly uncomfortable. I shouldn't have to put up with it.
For the record, if this was a child addressing me that way, I wouldn't be so upset. It's when it comes from another adult, especially an older male (and this is almost exclusively an older male phenomenon), that it raises my ire. I waited until I was in a calm moment and just this week told one of the "Miss Jessica" people to please stop calling me that and to just call me "Jessica." He looked vaguely apologetic and has since honored my wishes.
Above and beyond everything else, "Miss Jessica" makes me sound like an olden times school marm. That is not me at all.
This is more like me:
You know Barbara Gordon wouldn't put up with "sweetheart" or "sweetie" or "Miss," so why should I?
(Caveat: I don't expect everyone to be bothered by these addresses. I'm just telling you to advocate for yourself when something makes you uncomfortable.)
I actually tweeted about the moment that pushed me to my breaking point:
Guy who walked into the library just now: Sweetheart, do you mind if I... Me: I'm not your sweetheart. #grrr
— Jessica Olin (@olinj) August 7, 2013
The guy who'd called me "sweetheart" was visibly flustered by my rebuff and tried to explain himself a bit. "I don't mean anything by it. I've got a fiance and she's beautiful. I don't mean anything by it." My response was to go back to the initial question he'd asked (I think it was about reading our newspapers or some such), and then I went back to the work I'd been doing prior to the incident. I had a hard time getting my concentration back, though, since I was feeling very...
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This interaction also brought to mind all the times I've been called "Miss Jessica" recently. No, I don't have a ring around my wedding finger, but I'm 40 years old and a midlevel administrator at this institution and "Ms." has been in common parlance for a long time, so "Miss" just isn't appropriate anymore. I'm actually okay with "ma'am" when it comes from someone younger than I am, but all of the "Miss Jessica" has come from people who are older than me. When it comes from someone who is clearly old enough to be my parent, especially when that person is male, "Miss" feels dismissive and vaguely disrespectful.
In most of the cases I've experienced, I know these men didn't mean anything by it. Although a male friend to whom I vented about this was right when he said, "sometimes disrespect is meant." I also know that it's a bit of a Southernism (don't let the fact that Delaware was on the northern side of the Mason-Dixon line fool you, we have a lot of southern culture - both good bits and bad - in this state). But I also know "sweetheart," and "sweetie," and "Miss Jessica" and so on, make me incredibly uncomfortable. I shouldn't have to put up with it.
For the record, if this was a child addressing me that way, I wouldn't be so upset. It's when it comes from another adult, especially an older male (and this is almost exclusively an older male phenomenon), that it raises my ire. I waited until I was in a calm moment and just this week told one of the "Miss Jessica" people to please stop calling me that and to just call me "Jessica." He looked vaguely apologetic and has since honored my wishes.
Above and beyond everything else, "Miss Jessica" makes me sound like an olden times school marm. That is not me at all.
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This is more like me:
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You know Barbara Gordon wouldn't put up with "sweetheart" or "sweetie" or "Miss," so why should I?
(Caveat: I don't expect everyone to be bothered by these addresses. I'm just telling you to advocate for yourself when something makes you uncomfortable.)
I had almost this exact same exchange with man at a grocery store once. He was offering to help me in a situation where I didn't need help and called me "Sweetie." I told him I was not his sweetie and to back off. And I agree with you, Miss Jessica (Or Miss Samantha in my case) from a child is endearing but from an older man is diminutive in the worst way. Basically, I feel ya. :)
ReplyDeleteI bristle a bit when I get it from random strangers, but I don't say anything. The woman behind the counter at the corner who says "ma'am" like it's an insult... whatevs, I just don't go there anymore. But in a work situation, I've decided that I need to start saying something.
DeletePeople shouldn't assume it's okay to use that kind of language with a woman. I get called "Miss Ginger" by students a lot, but not yet by anyone older than me. I think my colleagues know better than to say something like that to me by now, because I have a very low tolerance for being patronized. My boss made the mistake of calling me a "delicate flower" last week and I let her know how I feel about delicate flowers. :)
ReplyDeleteI'm somewhat used to being called sugar, honey, sweetie, etc. by strangers now that I've been in the South for a few years. It only bothers me if it's accompanied by a certain tone.
I know what you mean about that tone.
DeleteI once had a similar reaction to someone calling me "sweetheart," but in my case the person was a priest and I was a ten-year-old altar server. Apparently, I stared at him and stated, "You're not supposed to call me that." I have no recollection of this, but it must have happened, because he was so impressed by my sticking up for myself that he told my principal, who then told my mother. She was proud of me that day. :) Anyway, yes. Patronizing. Don't like it.
ReplyDeleteFantastic story. I apparently corrected the grammar of my 4th grade teacher once. Once a punk, always a punk, right?
DeleteSo with you on this one. The Miss/Mr. First name Souhern convention is fine and polite for children. I've even been known to use it myself with my very elderly patrons (which kind of mimics he child/adult situaion). But when a peer or other adult uses it with me it drives me insane. It does feel condescending/patronizing, or like a deliberate effort to put distance between us, yet also act like we're friends. If you don't feel comfortable using my first name, call me Ms./Mrs. Waters. (and I've also seen this happen to men too, but I'm not sure if it bohers them as much as I'm bothered on their behalf!)
ReplyDeleteExactly. If someone calls me "Ms. Olin" I'm fine, although I'll admit I'll try to get them to call me Jessica.
DeleteIt's complicated. I'm a 57 year old white guy raised in Wisconsin who has been living in the deep south for 18 years. I'm not comfortable addressing a grown woman as "Miss" in a casual setting, but I have come to recognize that for many women raised in the South it is not only acceptable, but expected. And I am frequently called Sweetie or Sweetheart or Darlin'. I don't like it, but I put up with it. I'm afraid that I would embarrass or offend the woman who said it if I objected and I'm not willing to do that.
ReplyDeleteI'm currently in the hospital near the end of a week and a half stay. To address my very professional 45 year old nurse as "Nurse Gwen" would be awkwardly formal. To call her "Gwen" would be too familiar. "Miss Gwen" conveys the appropriate tone of respect. However, my 28 year old patient care tech, Courtney, raised in a slightly different era, might well bristle at "Miss", but under the circumstances would be very unlikely to say anything. I would never be able to tell if I'd offended her.
It does annoy me no end that I am expected to address the nurses & PCTs by their first names (and that's how they introduce themselves) while all of the physicians are "Doctor Last Name". This is particularly ridiculous when I've known some of them since they were young punk med students trying to find their way around the library. So I try to make a point of addressing the docs by their first names (thereby, no doubt, offending some of them).
My point is just that finding the proper form of address is ambiguous and expectations shift across geography and gender and race and generations and social status. So when the 57 white guy addresses you in a way that raises your hackles he may not be just cluelessly patronizing. He may be carefully trying to pick his way through murky terrain. By all means, let me know what you prefer. But be gentle. I'm trying.
Indeed, it's complicated. My post isn't so much about not calling women "sweetie" or the like as it is about respecting everyone's wishes about how they wish to be addressed. I had a conversation with a professor here just today about whether she prefers Liz or Beth or Elizabeth or what.
DeleteI tend not to give people a pass just because something was once acceptable. If it's not acceptable now, it's not acceptable. I'm not perfect in this regard myself (I admit that when someone does something stupid, My first thought is to use what is now considered "the R word", but hopefully I stop myself before saying it), but I try, and if I'm called out for not using the correct term, then I deserve to be called out on it. No one has to be a jerk about it, but how else is someone supposed to know that it's not acceptable, unless you tell them?
ReplyDeleteI spent time breaking myself of the habit of saying "gypped" about a decade back, shortly after I realized it was a derogatory thing.
DeleteRob -- I wish the issue of "acceptability" was that clear cut. Do I tell Miss Gwen that it's no longer acceptable for her to prefer to be addressed that way?
ReplyDeleteThat's not what he's saying.
DeleteWhat I'm saying is that if Miss Gwen does not wish to be addressed as Miss Gwen, she should say so.
DeleteI asked my wife, who is from the deep south, if any of this would bother her. She said that "Sweetheart" definitely would, but if an adult called her "Miss Joy", she wouldn't care one bit. She said where she is from, it is a sign of respect.
I definitely feel that you should request to be addressed the way you want. It took me a long time, after moving from Massachusetts to Georgia, to be comfortable with [what felt like to me] both the overly-familiar ("sweetie") and the overly-formal (being called "ma'am" by people older than me). I also did not grow up being required to call adults "sir" or "ma'am".
ReplyDeleteTo me, the "Miss/Mr. FirstName" thing has actually been a sort of happy medium as it gives some respect without feeling too subservient. I also prefer it for myself, as a young library manager who wants to distinguish my position but not sound like your olden time school marm. I took my husband's last name (another HUGE can o' worms there!) but don't feel like a "Mrs. Husband" and would go nuclear if we got mail addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. Husband"
But again: the most respect is shown not when one uses the most formal address but when one uses the *requested* form of address!
I am totally in agreement with you Jessica. I grew up in Austin, TX and now live in WI. I am 30, but look younger. I generally bite my lip and put up with elderly men calling me honey, sweetheart, etc. and a lot of moms who shorten my name to "miss jenny" even though I DETEST diminutives. I also put up with vaguely creepy male patrons calling me Jen, even though my name tag clearly says "Jennifer" and I want to scream "I am not your friend, you do not get to shorten my name!!" I do try to say "hey, you can just call me Jennifer" a lot, and I make sure our publicity and newsletter calls me Ms. Jennifer but ultimately there is no way my director would back me up on calling anyone on this, especially the men so I just grit my teeth and bear it. She still thinks the elderly man who grabs us when we don't move fast enough and told me he wanted to take pictures of me in a bikini is "cute".
ReplyDeleteI was recently at dinner with my mother where our waiter (late-20s male) addressed her and me both as "Miss." I don't think my mom reacted negatively to it, but I flinched every time he switched between us using the same term. I'm not a fan of anyone using "Miss" to refer to an adult at all, but as a 23-year-old woman it is something I hear often. But a woman who has been here for over half a century... no, I just can't.
ReplyDelete