tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post689725756288444825..comments2024-03-27T05:00:00.090-04:00Comments on Letters to a Young Librarian: My Reference Desk ConundrumJessica Olinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00282500023825318766noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-67526873575580519932016-11-07T11:02:37.489-05:002016-11-07T11:02:37.489-05:00I am a public librarian so things are a little dif... I am a public librarian so things are a little different for me. BUT I have 3 degrees and therefore lots of experience with academic libraries including the one in which I worked during my first (Non-librarian) graduate degree; and I think that there are a few things that come into play. Foremost is the institution's expectation of the student's library experience. When I was an undergraduate all science and social science students were required to have preliminary bibliographic instruction. So we did not avoid the reference librarians because we couldn't get through our academic programs without demonstrating that we could "fish." In fact that's how my interest in library science was fostered. By the time I was in graduate school (also in social sciences) I was working in the university library as a GA. ALL graduate students were expected to have basic bibliographic knowledge. Those who'd gotten it during undergrad were grateful. The others were behind the eight ball. Typically undergraduate students will only seek library instruction if they are required and/or personally interested in doing so. In my humble opinion those who are neither required nor interested should not have the instruction forced upon them. If their disciplines require it then the university should impose a standard. If not they should be able to receive basic, non-instructional, reference services as a complement to enrollment. As for knowing where to draw the line, ask the student if s/he wants instruction. If they are required they will say yes. If they are interested they will say yes. Otherwise they’ll say no and the librarian can continue accordingly. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05866265692361003469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-50653193745440734202012-09-13T03:01:32.233-04:002012-09-13T03:01:32.233-04:00Another dimension to this in my role at a very bus...Another dimension to this in my role at a very busy public library is TIME. It can be difficult to patiently teach someone to fish while there are five hungry patrons behind them waiting for their own fish suppers. I've over-extended the metaphor here, but I definitely feel like I would be able to provide a more empowering service if I wasn't in such a demanding environment. And yes, I can see how that is self perpetuating.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15925895325056130700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-63802959368636483472012-08-30T14:48:38.952-04:002012-08-30T14:48:38.952-04:00I'm not sure I'm adding anything to the di...I'm not sure I'm adding anything to the discussion that hasn't already been said - but I think that academic librarians have much more responsibility to teach, by virtue of the position. Customer service is still great in an academic setting, but those students are paying big bucks to learn. They should be learning everywhere. I think an academic librarian who doesn't teach is wasting a student's tuition dollars (in most cases - I agree with you on the administrator comment).<br /><br />In the public setting - like others, I gauge the person. If they need to learn how to do it on their own, I teach them. If not, I just do it. I've gotten to the point where I know what's better for each patron. If I don't, I just flat out ask. I like your point about the mechanic - but even if the mechanic doesn't make me do the fixing myself, can he tell me what I can do to avoid the problem in the future? That's a form of teaching. So, when working with the public in a non-academic setting, even non-library, there is a degree of responsibility to teach. Carihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17089762130217570280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-39902701294781438192012-08-30T11:32:33.298-04:002012-08-30T11:32:33.298-04:00I'm on the public side, and we've recently...I'm on the public side, and we've recently abolished the reference desk (grrrrrr). However, this means I tend to balance things based on the line. If we're busy and I know the answer, I'm likely to belt out the answer and row number, and point... not great customer service, but I balance it against the 10 people we have in line, who are waiting for check in, check out, and reference services (at one desk. grrrrr.).<br /><br />On the other hand, if I am engaging with a patron, I do my best to instruct them. "Health and medicine tends to be in the 610-619s" or "History is organized by continents, so US History is in the 970s, with the rest of North America." If they're looking for a specific book, I may not get up and make them find it themselves, but I will show them the process I use to go through our web catalog, and determine whether something should be there in the first place.<br /><br />It is a balancing act; if I've pointed and given an answer, and they don't look sure, I walk them over, explaining a few things as I go along (like "These are our circulating books; the reference is over there and can't be checked out").Library Ogrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04568765014350648883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-4537015311034860812012-08-29T15:12:49.738-04:002012-08-29T15:12:49.738-04:00I'm also glad to know I'm not the only one...I'm also glad to know I'm not the only one. Of course, I act like I know exactly what I'm doing when I'm dealing with the public, so it stands to reason that others are sort of faking, too.Jessica Olinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00282500023825318766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-45834253704195927102012-08-29T15:11:51.298-04:002012-08-29T15:11:51.298-04:00At my last job, we only had one desk. It was circ,...At my last job, we only had one desk. It was circ, and reference, and information. We all did it all.Jessica Olinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00282500023825318766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-59873904040194860622012-08-29T15:10:41.689-04:002012-08-29T15:10:41.689-04:00I'm jealous. I had a set up like that at a pre...I'm jealous. I had a set up like that at a previous job.Jessica Olinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00282500023825318766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-45139468536522623132012-08-29T15:10:13.697-04:002012-08-29T15:10:13.697-04:00I had such a hard time asking for help when I was ...I had such a hard time asking for help when I was in my MLIS program. I don't remember what it was that finally tipped the balance, but I do remember through my "I'm learning how to do this so I should be able to do it myself" phase and moving onto the "I'm supposed to be learning how to do this, and the person at the reference desk already knows how, so I should ask" phase.Jessica Olinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00282500023825318766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-2562305540526270122012-08-29T15:08:12.646-04:002012-08-29T15:08:12.646-04:00Anne, I have definitely encountered students who w...Anne, I have definitely encountered students who would rather pay a fisherman. At a previous job, I actually had a student offer me money to do some research for him - not related to school work, but it was still so odd.Jessica Olinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00282500023825318766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-24213190488504340282012-08-29T15:04:44.255-04:002012-08-29T15:04:44.255-04:00I'm not the only one who faces this! Whew! I a...I'm not the only one who faces this! Whew! I am not a reference librarian, but I am the Local History Director at my public library. Patrons come to the Local History Room for Local History or genealogy questions or research. I have often come upon situations where I'm not sure how much to help- do I just show them where the microfilm is and give them the index, or do I pull the microfilm out and look up that death certificate for them? Sometimes, it's easy to know who needs to be guided and who does not- sometimes all I need to do is ask. But it can be difficult to figure out how much to help- I feel as if I do it for them, they lose out on the joy of research and the skills they will acquire by researching on their own. However, if I do not walk through it with them, there is always a possibility that they will not discover all there is to be discovered, and I feel like I am not doing my job. I have no answer to the conundrum, but it's good to know that other librarians face the same difficulty.Jillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11905232092734897933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-8301110816470647702012-08-28T15:51:38.441-04:002012-08-28T15:51:38.441-04:00i definitely try to work some kind of instruction ...i definitely try to work some kind of instruction into almost every reference interaction, but i find myself doing "sly" instruction. since i'm youngish at a community college library, students (pretty much all of them) assume I am a student worker (it probably doesn't help that my idea/planning notebook is a single subject green spiral, but whatever). it puts us on the same level (they think) and so my instruction can be more "let's figure this out together" and less "watch me type". i ask a LOT of questions to gauge what they know/don't know, tell them where and what we're looking at and why and go from there. students love it, i love it, we all win. if it comes out naturally, i mention that i am *gasp* a librarian, but if not, no big deal, at least they know that someone at the reference desk was helpful and they'll (hopefully) be more likely to return.<br /><br />at my current POW, the division between reference and circulation is a bit murky. at my last job, where i was a circ assistant, i was forbidden for answering reference questions of any kind (even though i had 3 reference internships/volunteer experiences) and those questions went to the reference librarian. <br /><br /> Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00537751969028514569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-91949597528385297582012-08-28T15:39:42.124-04:002012-08-28T15:39:42.124-04:00As an academic librarian, it's my job to teach...As an academic librarian, it's my job to teach the students how to do it for themselves, but what I tend to do is walk them through the exact process that I'm going through to find the answer, rather than just find the answer and give it to them. We have two monitors on the reference desk, one for us and one for the students, and that makes it really easy for us to do this.Rob Sagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05788956770764271509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-25471088211675684652012-08-28T15:22:11.213-04:002012-08-28T15:22:11.213-04:00My instinct as a Library Tech student would be to ...My instinct as a Library Tech student would be to teach that person to fish because I would personally consider demanding the answer without any effort to be cheating. The librarians in my community college, who are also my professors, also believe in teaching us to fish, and I've observed many non-library students being very vocally opposed to that. <br /><br />I wonder if it related to fear of failure? My husband, a teacher, has complained about students that will not even attempt assignments unless walked every step of the way through them. Then there are other, like me, who were raised not to go to adults for help, including parents, teachers, and librarians, because that was a sign of failure. That is still something I'm trying to get over as an adult. Both situations create problems. <br /><br />Final question: Are your circulation and reference desks labeled, even with something simple like "Ask Me!" and "Check Out?" My school's are not, and while the circulation desk was fairly easy to figure out, it was several weeks before I realized we had a reference desk versus a person who just monitored what students were doing on the computers. Many local libraries rarely have a reference desk anymore, so coupled with my insistence on being independent, I never even thought to look for one. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-21817845518846386412012-08-28T14:11:39.261-04:002012-08-28T14:11:39.261-04:00This is one of the big differences between service...This is one of the big differences between services in public libraries and academic ones. I'm a public librarian too, and a lot of times, you just find the answer for the patron. Many times, if you try to "teach them to fish," well, they'd rather pay a fisherman for that. Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06851816764938946226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-22467305999281883562012-08-28T13:19:09.392-04:002012-08-28T13:19:09.392-04:00Hmm... food for thought, there. Thanks!Hmm... food for thought, there. Thanks!Jessica Olinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00282500023825318766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-22157562140597648272012-08-28T13:18:40.626-04:002012-08-28T13:18:40.626-04:00I have some students who just want me to do it, to...I have some students who just want me to do it, too, but especially with freshmen I feel like I need to teach them. (For the record: if an administrator asks me a reference question, I just answer it.)Jessica Olinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00282500023825318766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-67089812754475003342012-08-28T13:17:36.258-04:002012-08-28T13:17:36.258-04:00I'm not abandoning my approach, but I also won...I'm not abandoning my approach, but I also wonder if I'd have more opportunities to teach if I just answered more questions.Jessica Olinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00282500023825318766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-22693597611112995502012-08-28T13:16:18.073-04:002012-08-28T13:16:18.073-04:00That's how I generally approach it, but anothe...That's how I generally approach it, but another part of the conundrum is the difference between my and my colleagues' interpretation of "instruction when appropriate."Jessica Olinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00282500023825318766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-51726609817915900892012-08-28T12:25:03.466-04:002012-08-28T12:25:03.466-04:00If the circulation desk is answering questions you...If the circulation desk is answering questions you can answer faster/more indepth, then its time for an institution over haul. My academic library has the same philosophy. Its understood that we won't answer reference questions at the circulation desk. I send students, even when they're unwilling, to a reference librarian. Jessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13619179383582230238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-43895303547214823692012-08-28T11:09:51.186-04:002012-08-28T11:09:51.186-04:00When I get return patrons who want the same thing ...When I get return patrons who want the same thing each visit--e.g., to place a hold on an item--I become more likely to try to show them how to do it. Many of my patrons don't <i>want</i> to know how to do things; they want me to do it, and they have no qualms about expressing this desire. But I try to give the people who might want to know more (how to use the catalog from home, etc.) the opportunity to learn.Anna Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06542744978194806986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-10659191352369103162012-08-28T10:04:41.164-04:002012-08-28T10:04:41.164-04:00I don't get any super complicated reference qu...I don't get any super complicated reference questions at my library, but I choose to walk my students through the research process instead of just showing them where something is or doing it for them. I think this is the better tactic because part of my job is to teach them how to do research (which is kind of an endless lesson, even for experienced librarians). This is what separates us from the search engines that are supposedly replacing us. There will always be people who would rather take the short cut.<br /><br />I might feel differently if you weren't at a college, but I think since your role is an educational one, your "teach them to fish" instinct is correct.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4061870849031468581.post-90022500204726071532012-08-28T10:00:14.244-04:002012-08-28T10:00:14.244-04:00We have a little rubric by which we judge our refe...We have a little rubric by which we judge our reference success. There's a statement in it about "instruction when appropriate." It's completely subjective. But it does remind us to feel out the student/faculty for how much time and patience they have. My favorite technique, when I can manage it, is to wow them and then use their moment of being impressed as a foot in the door. Then I can show off how I did it, like a stage magician revealing how the trick is performed. A lot of students seem to be very gratified to think they are now in possession of secret shortcuts and backdoors and tricks of the trade. Sarah Morehousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15590734506065560328noreply@blogger.com